“Hi Front page People” column

Zhu Wei, Hatched Under The Flag

Our devoted columnist expounds on Zhu Wei-a sharp writer and creative thinker making ripples with the unveiling of his second exhibition in China. Zhu Wei and Cheng Xindong made a promise sixteen years ago, which has finally been realized and we eagerly dashed over to check out the show. While Zhu Wei’s laid-back attitude remains unchanged, our interview felt somewhat awkward. Perhaps we know each other too well.

I highly respect the artist Zhu Wei. Rather than rant on about his artistic achievements, it suffices to say that a book could be written about the buzz and lame debate surrounding his “potato people” and whether they should be considered contemporary art. For this reason, many Chinese curators do not like to include Zhu Wei in projects so the “banged up man” floats within the western market. Every situation has pros and cons. Zhu Wei, among the first generation of artists who became wealthy, remains carefree and down to earth. But as I struggle to find a way to describe him in detail, my mind becomes saturated with images from a Cui Jian concert, which Zhu Wei invited me to attend this year. Zhu Wei hid in the corner watching. When the songs turned sentimental, Zhu Wei and Jiang Wen-also at the concert-stood up to sing along in loud voices-they even burst into tears. Naturally their crocodile tears turned into piss at the after party. There is hope for men in their forties to blossom because they have reached a point where they despise money as crap- although they are wealthy. They hide behind their emotions and seem carefree when they are disappointed. This state of mind could be attributed to exceptional DNA. Of course, the hardships endured in the past also play a part. Otherwise, no one could achieve success so easily. Although achieving success when a man is in his forties only marks the beginning. On the other hand, this stage could also mark the beginning of when a man develops a gut or when brain failure sets in, if he goes off the deep end. On a more serious note, despite few works in the show, each work exhibited in Zhu Wei’s show is meaningful and the exhibition is worth checking out. Honestly, Zhu Wei has become a dear friend.

Hi Art = Hi Zhu Wei = Zhu
A Promise From 16 Years Ago

Hi: Prospects aren’t good, why are you having a solo exhibition?

Zhu: This exhibition is the result of a promise made sixteen years ago. At the time, Cheng Xindong was working at Galerie de France and I was represented by Plum Blossoms Gallery in Hong Kong. I forget the exact date, but I told Cheng Xindong, “I will collaborate with you when I am free.” Much to my surprise, fourteen years later, Cheng Xindong still remembered this promise, thus the reason for this exhibition.

Hi: Did you feel the economic crisis while living in the United States recently?

Zhu: Of course I felt it! Although I might sound rude, it is very arrogant for us to sit back and watch the “American economic crisis” unfold when it is also happening here. Our core systems are different. If both countries were plummeting to the ground, we would hit rock bottom while they would still manage to float above water! Where there are different standards, there are also different consequences.

Hi: In other words, western collectors are still buying paintings because they have not hit rock bottom?

Zhu: When the economy is rocky, the stock market becomes unstable, so wealthy collectors often turn to antiques and artwork. That’s how it usually works.

Hi: Have you been following the Sotheby’s auction results? The price of nearly every work has been cut in half and only a few works managed to fetch above the estimate.

Zhu: Dropping to 1/4 of the original market price would not be excessive. For example, if a painting is appraised at two hundred thousand, but the asking price is jacked up and inflated to two million or twenty million, slashing the price to 1/8 of the asking price would not be out of line. Of course, it’s great for all of us if the market for contemporary art is hot. Anyway, I doubt many people would agree to slash the asking price to 1/8.

Hi: So I’m wondering how many people are collecting art because they truly appreciate it?

Zhu: I think the majority of people truly appreciate art. If someone buys art because they like it and subsequently the work increases in value, then from an investment point of view, that would obviously be a plus. The worse case scenario is when the collector has no interest in the art and the collection is merely a scheme to launder money. Perhaps these types of people will be affected by the economic crisis.

No Bubbles Last Forever

Hi: People are constantly talking about the bubble theory. I was fortunate enough to catch a glimpse of the bubble.

Zhu: The speculators are often the bubble makers. Do you think it’s constructive for the artist? Do you think it’s good for you? People build hype to create a charade instead of following the fluctuations in the market. The latter choice would be positive for you, the artist and the collector. You see some groups are always favored. Do you think that’s fair?

Hi: It’s not fair.

Zhu: Falling down, and then rising up again… wouldn’t that be good?

Hi: Sometimes, I take pleasure in the misfortune of others—watching as some of the galleries who promote revolting artwork can no longer close a sale.

Zhu: I don’t agree that this is taking pleasure in someone’s misfortune. It’s having a good head on your shoulders. That junk became popular because of the bubble.

Hi: Maybe there are permanent bubbles?

Zhu: You are funny, how could a bubble be permanent.

Hi: Many think that you do not belong to any group, leading a lifestyle like the poet Tao Yuanming- is that true?

Zhu: That’s living life like of an old bastard. My situation is different. The content of my paintings can be categorized as contemporary art, but using materials of ink and water confuses critics, curators, artists, dealers and museums as to what I do or how to evaluate me. Everyone is always grilling me asking, “how do you categorize your work?” This discussion and labeling has been going on for more than a decade, and yet no conclusion has been reached. Thus I’ve been floating all these years.

Hi: Do you mind being overlooked?

Zhu: Of course I mind. I will give you an example. Awhile back, there was an exhibition at Cheng Xindong’s gallery, “Brightness, Red, and Luminescence”. Six months earlier, they invited me to participate in this exhibition. I happily made two new works specifically for this show, but when the exhibition date was approaching, they told me, “Zhu Wei, we are sorry that although you are quite famous and everyone knows your work, which is great, our exhibition will only include oil painting.” So I thought, f**k, why didn’t you tell me sooner. I was quite upset, so I went to America. Should contemporary art include ink painting? After all these years, I am no longer shocked at such a debate. But, it was upsetting that I was rejected.

Hi: Many years ago, you collaborated with a PR firm, which is a rather unique approach.

Zhu: That had nothing to do with me. A friend of mine worked at a PR firm, and they were looking to hire two art consultants. At the time, I didn’t want to collaborate with galleries anymore and decided to do something on my own, so I agreed. I remember the other consultant was Ye Jintian. What are the benefits of being an art consultant? They would publish catalogues of our work, or include images of our work for publicity.

Hi: In fact, it’s a unique way of self-promotion.

Zhu: That’s true, usually the gallery would ask for artwork in exchange. I signed a two-year contract with the PR firm and they didn’t ask me for a penny. The other advantage of working with a PR firm is the distance from the art market and PR firms are more professional than most galleries, so it was easy to collaborate with them.

Excluded from Contemporary and Ink Painting

Hi: I think “contemporary ink painting” is a rather desperate term.

Zhu: Contemporary ink painting should be considered a cultural phenomenon, since ink painting is indigenous to China. Why does everyone appreciate oil painting? Because they lack confidence in their culture. Some people believe oil paintings are easier to preserve than works on paper, but look at some of the Song dynasty paintings- they are fine. In fact, there are only a few ink painters in the contemporary art world-me, Wei Dong, Li Jin, Xu Lei-who have done quite well in China. What is bizarre is that westerners can appreciate contemporary Chinese paintings, but the Chinese would rather look at oil paintings. Furthermore, we believe our works are part of the ink painting tradition, but older ink painters don’t agree. We are rejected by both the contemporary and ink painting circles. This is the condition of contemporary ink painting.

Hi: Then, why have you always maintained this practice?

Zhu: There are many painters creating oil paintings, they don’t need me.

Hi: You should be considered as an independent artist in the art world, like our magazine, which does not need to rely on any old-fashioned system.

Zhu: Because of periodicals like Hi Art, this murky art world has potential to become more transparent. Your presence prevents those schemers and pretenders. Historically, the art world has been divided into academic periodicals and commercial periodicals, so the artists had to kowtow to both parties, to satisfy both sides. Your magazine seems to have removed this. No matter how powerful the expert is, you can still point out where he should restrain himself; and no matter how desperate the artist is, you can tell him there is potential. I think your magazine, unlike many other publications, has been working in such regards.

Hi: Thank you, although somehow it seems to resemble the condition of contemporary ink painting.

Zhu: There are times I feel that things are unfair.

Hi: There are certain people painting crap, driving fast cars, and keeping many wives. I think, as a man, you can’t be unaffected by this situation.

Zhu: The key is how much a man has in his savings, not the type of car he drives or the brand of clothing he wears. The car, clothing, and the number of wives a man has is perhaps only equivalent to 1% of his income, do you know how much he has in savings?

Hi: In other words, he’s wealthier than he appears?

Zhu: Of course, he could endure the drought and survive the winter. Artists nowadays are rich, and bubbles might not affect them. Compared to galleries and auction houses, artists can keep their money when the market is not in their favor, stay home, and return when the market improves.

Hi: I think some of your paintings are quite commercial, is that a criticism?

Zhu: It is not easy for ink painting to be commercial. Do you know where my painting of Five Oxen is hanging right now? In the New York Stock Exchange lobby. It was sold during my solo show in New York for thirty thousand dollars.

Hi: Even with the current economic crisis, they have not taken the painting down?

Zhu: I did not paint bears.

I don’t admit that I am aging

Hi: How many transformations or phases have your paintings undergone?

Zhu: Three or four. Beijing Story was created during the end of the 80s and early 90s. Later on, those paintings resembled Political Pop Art. At the end of the 90s, I began creating the Public Square Series, and added contemporary elements such as color to my ink paintings. Later on I produced work about fairies spreading flowers and utopia, which represented a departure from politics and consideration on how to transform ink painting from a technical point of view. My most recent works tend to be more traditional. Starting from a desire to reform ink painting and ultimately returning to it. Now, I am in a phase of creating calmly. There have been both good and bad times, so now I am at peace.

Hi: As a contemporary ink painter, it’s quite a unique phenomenon that you have befriended rock musician Cui Jian. Or at least, you have shared many experiences with him.

Zhu: Cui Jian composed a song titled, Cities Surrounded By the Countryside for my solo exhibition in 2001. The title on the fax cover page said, “for Zhu Wei, hope your exhibition will be a success.” I thought what do these lyrics have to do with me, so I returned it to him.

Hi: Contemporary ink painting is like a city surrounded by the countryside.

Zhu: I always thought I was quite fashionable.

Hi: I think a people like Cui Jian are getting old.

Zhu: When you reach a certain age, you don’t want to admit it. I don’t feel much older than I was twenty years ago. At the time I was immature, now I laugh at what I did back then. I don’t want to admit that I am old.

Two New Red Flags

Hi: What new works are included in this exhibition?

Zhu: Two paintings of red flags.

Hi: And they became the eggs hatched under the flags?

Zhu: This time there is no egg, just the red flags.

Hi: Hatching red flags?

Zhu: What I would like to say is that, although China is undergoing drastic changes, we are still essentially under the red flag. This year’s Olympic games are a typical example. It seemed lively, but the rhetoric was entirely inline with that from The Cultural Revolution. There is a large painting of utopia that I started in 2004, 8.4 meters long, 7 meters high, consisting of 140 small paintings. The painting is too large for one piece of glass, so it was divided into 140 pieces. Perhaps it won’t be exhibited due to time constraints.

Hi: Why paint a large painting? Is it like reading the sutra, to train the mind?

Zhu: I would like to show people that ink painting can also be done in large format.

Hi: What are your dreams? Have they been realized?

Zhu: My dream is to reconsider the ink painting tradition. I do not believe that the art produced in China should be viewed as inferior to western art. Regardless of whether the market shifts, I must carry on with ink painting.

《Hi Art》2008年11月刊“Hi 封面人物”栏目

红旗下的蛋 朱伟

我们杂志忠实的专栏作家，文笔犀利、才思荡漾的朱伟在国内第二次个展终于露面了，16年前与程昕东一句不经意的承诺，近日终于得以实现，我们几乎是欢心雀跃的大举前往，也许是平时过于熟悉，以至于采访的时候，反倒有些 尴尬。不过，朱伟一向大大咧咧的本色不变。

朱伟是我尊敬的艺术家，暂时不提他的艺术已经到达了什么样的高度，光说说他的“土豆人”是不是属于当代艺术这样的狗屁话题，就能谈一本书，也因为如此，国内的策展人总不爱带他玩，以至于让这么一个铮铮的汉子一直在国外市场流荡，事情总是有利有弊，朱伟算是被允许先富起来的第一拨艺术家，因此如今方能打磨出如此潇洒、放松、正常的朱伟。但还是不知道该怎么细说朱伟，突然想起今年应朱伟邀请一同去看崔健演唱会的画面，朱伟独自躲在一个角落里观看，估计和同时在场的姜文一样，唱到非常感伤的时候，也会站起来大声地喊出声甚至哭出来，这样的鳄鱼眼泪都会在接下来的酒局中化为一泡尿一笑了之，四十多岁的男人确实有希望变成一朵花，有钱但装作视钱粪土，有情但装作挥洒节制，有恨但装作无关痛痒，这么成功的境界，如果不是有特别牛逼的遗传因子作祟，那之前吃过的苦，受过的累也必须归结在内，否则没有谁能随随便便成功，四十岁的成功只是开始，搞不好就是迈向猪肚子、猪脑子的开始，阿弥陀佛，说了这么多臭屁的话，我们真心热爱的朱伟个展虽然作品不多，但该有的意思都有了，值得你去看看。不过，说实话，朱伟这个人值得成为朋友。

Hi 艺术=Hi 朱伟= 朱

16年前的约定
Hi ：光景不好，为什么要办个展？
朱：这个个展是16 年前的一个约定，当时程昕东还在法国法兰西画廊工作，我一直在和香港的万玉堂合作，忘了是什么时候，我对程昕东说过：“一旦我自由了，就和你合作。”没想到14 年过去了，程昕东还记得，于是就有了现在这个展览。
Hi ：前一阵子你一直在美国生活，感觉到经济危机了吗？
朱：感觉到了，但是说句不客气的话，你看美国现在经济危机，咱这儿也危机，人家什么底子，大家同时掉，我们掉到桌子底下，人家还在桌子上呢！水平不一样，后果也不一样。
Hi ：那就是说，欧美藏家还可以买画，反正他们也没掉到桌子底下去。
朱：如果经济不好，股票市场也不好，真正有钱的藏家就会买古董和艺术品，往往都是这样。
Hi ：你看苏富比拍卖了吗？几乎全场作品价格都除以2，只有个别作品还维持在一定水平上。
朱：我觉得除以4 都不真实，比如说一张画就值20万，你非得弄到200万、2000万，这反而不对了，我觉得除以8都回不到原来的定位，当然咱们当代艺术好，你、我、大家伙都好。再说也不可能回到除以8的水平了，很多人也不答应呀！
Hi ：所以我在想一个问题，有多少人是真心喜爱艺术品而进行收藏的？
朱：我觉得大部分人是真心喜欢，一个人因为喜欢买了艺术品，再加上投资升值的话，那当然更好。就怕根本不喜欢，早就预谋好了，倒腾点东西，那太糟糕了，估计这些人收的作品可能会受到经济危机的打击。

泡沫没有坚强的
Hi ：总有人说泡沫论，我终于有幸看到了一小下泡沫？
朱：投机者老弄那个泡沫，你就觉得对艺术家好吗？对你们好吗？大家弄一些假东西在那儿绕来绕去的，还不如能看到市场的起伏。对你、艺术家、藏家都有好处。你看某些人老得势，你觉得这公平吗？
Hi ：不公平。
朱：塌下去一回，再上来，不是挺好的嘛。
Hi ：我有时候也有点幸灾乐祸，我看有一些画廊卖那么恶心的东西，现在卖不出去了。
朱：我觉得不是你幸灾乐祸，是你价值判断比较正确，那些破玩意卖得好，不就因为是泡沫嘛。
Hi ：没准有坚强的泡沫呢？
朱：泡沫哪有坚强的，你真逗。
Hi ：都说你一直以来不属于任何话语权之下，基本上过着像陶渊明一样的生活，这是真的吗？
朱：那是老王八蛋一样的生活，我的处境不一样，我画的画内容看着是当代艺术，但是从材料上讲，是水墨画，所以批评家、艺术家、策展人、画廊、博物馆，不知道我是干嘛的？该怎么样评价我？大家都在质问我：“你的作品算什么？”这样的讨论以及分类进行了十几年，但一直没有结果，所以我也就游荡了这么多年。
Hi ：不被重视，你在意吗？
朱：在意。我给你举个例子，前一阵子程昕东画廊有个“红光亮”的展览，半年前就给我发过邀请，希望我也参与这个展览，我一高兴专门为这个展览创作了两幅画，等到展览马上要开幕的时候，人家说：“朱伟对不起，我早就知道，你出名挺早的，大家都知道，你作品也挺好的，但是我们这回都是油画，没有纸上作品，所以……”我心想：他妈的，你怎么不早说，这事让我挺火的，一气之下，我就去美国了。当代艺术有没有水墨画这个事？这么多了年的纷争，我都见怪不怪了，问题是这小子让人挺生气的。
Hi ：很多年前，你和一个公关公司合作过，这真是一个独特的思路？
朱：那个跟我没有关系，我的一个朋友在一家公关公司公司，那个公关公司想找两个人当艺术顾问，我当时不想跟画廊合作了，决定自己折腾，于是就答应了，我记得一个顾问是叶锦添，另一个是我。艺术顾问有什么好处呢？就是给你出一点画册或是什么宣传品上印上我们的作品。
Hi ：其实是一条很独特的宣传自我的方法。
朱：那倒是，一般画廊可是要画的，公关公司跟我签了两年合同，一分钱也没跟我要。公关公司还有一个好处就是他们离艺术市场远一点，而且比一般的画廊专业，所以跟他们合作很轻松。

当代、水墨都排斥我们
Hi：我觉得“当代水墨”是一个很绝望的说法。
朱：当代水墨算是一个文化现象，因为水墨画是中国本土的东西，为什么大家都喜欢油画？自己的文化信心不够坚定，而且还有些人认为油画比纸上作品容易保存，宋代那些画现在好好的。其实当代水墨画里还能混出来就这么几个人，我、魏东、李津、徐累，都在国外混得不错，特别奇怪的现象是外国人能看得懂当代水墨，中国人反而更愿意看油画。而且我们认为自己是水墨，真正那群罗罗嗦嗦的水墨画老头根本不认同我们的画是水墨，当代、水墨都排斥我们，这就是当代水墨。
Hi ：那你为什么一直坚持？
朱：现在画油画那么多人，用不着我。
Hi ：你算是艺术界里拥有独立个性的艺术家，和我们杂志一样，不用依附于什么腐朽体系。
朱：因为有《Hi 艺术》这样的杂志，这么浑的艺术圈，现在开始变得透明了。就是因为有你们在中间，谁想捣鬼装孙子，装不下去了，过去的美术界一边是学术刊物，一边是商业刊物，艺术家在里面可要装了，两头堵着玩，有你们这样的杂志全都通，再牛逼的权威，你也能指出他哪儿该收敛收敛，再惨的艺术家，你也告诉他，前途有的是，我觉得你们杂志老在做这样的事，一般的杂志不会这样的。
Hi ：谢谢，不过怎么觉得很像当代水墨的处境嘛！
朱：但是挺难坚持的，有的时候心里确实觉得有点不平衡。
Hi ：当然了，有的人画的那么烂，都开上了各种什么样的车，老婆已经换了几个了。我觉得作为男人不可能对这个事情无动于衷的。
朱：开什么车？穿什么衣服〉那能花几个钱，关键是你存多少钱？现在还是停留在开什么跑车，穿什么衣服，换多少老婆，那可能只是他收入的1%，你知道他存多少钱？
Hi ：那就是说他更有钱？
朱：对啊。他能抗旱，能过冬。现在艺术家有钱，泡沫对他们影响不大，比一般的画廊、拍卖公司现金流好，所以市场不好，人家可以待在家里休息，市场好了再出来。
Hi ：我觉得你有一些画还是很商业的，这不算是批评吧！
朱：你要把水墨画画商业了也不容易，这张《五牛图》我后来给改了，你知道这张画现在挂在哪儿吗？在纽约证券交易所大厅，2003 年我在纽约的个展上3 万美元卖出去的。
Hi ：现在对照经济危机，他们没有把这个画取下来。
朱：我画的又不是熊。

我不承认自己变老了
Hi ：你的画经历了几次比较大的变动，或者是改革？
朱： 三、四次吧，80 年代末90 年代初的时候《北京故事》是一次改变，后来那些画有点接近政治波谱，90 年代末的时候，开始做广场系列，在水墨画上加入了一些当代的东西，包括颜料、落款上也是全新的，再往后就是天女散花乌托邦这样的作品，离政治越来越远，主要是思考怎么从技法上改变水墨画？最近的作品却越来越传统，从过去想改革水墨到重新回到水墨，经历了这么多年，现在是越来越安静创作的时候，基本上该经历的、该做的事都做了，好的也赶上了，坏的也赶上了，所以如今安静了。
Hi ：作为一个当代水墨艺术家，你还有一个特殊经历，就是跟崔健这样的摇滚圈一直在一起，至少共同经历过很长一段时间？
朱：在我2001 年的个展上，崔健还专门给我写了一首歌词叫《农村包围城市》，传真上还写着“送给朱伟，祝贺朱伟个展成功。”我一看这歌词和我有什么关系，我又给他退回去了。
Hi ：当代水墨就是农村包围城市？
朱：我一直觉得我很洋气。
Hi ：我感觉有一批人老了，比如崔健。
朱：你到那个岁数，你就不承认了，我现在也不觉得我比20年前有多老，我觉得当时还不懂事，现在想想我怎么干那样一件事呢？我不承认自己现在老了。

两面新红旗
Hi ：这次展览新作品是什么？
朱：新作品就是画了两面红旗。
Hi ：又变成红旗下的蛋了？
朱：这回没有下蛋，直接画的红旗。
Hi ：蛋生的红旗？
朱：我想说的是中国目前看起来有很大的变化，但骨子里还是在红旗下的，这回奥运会不就是典型的例证嘛。看着挺热闹的，但是说话的方式完全是文革状态的。还有一个从2004年画到今天的一张乌托邦大画，长8米4，高是7米，一共是140块小画拼成的，因为那个画太大了，没有那么大的玻璃，就把画裁成140块，不过这次时间紧张，可能没有办法展示出来。
Hi ：为什么要画大画？完全跟念佛一样，是为了锤炼自己吗？
朱：我就是告诉大家水墨画也能画大。
Hi ：你的理想是什么？实现了吗？
朱：我的理想就是让水墨画值点钱，我始终有一股气在心里，本土的东西，怎么就不行了呢？我就奇怪了，不管市场起伏不起伏，就是要把水墨做好。